Elephant Room 2: Uh, this is embarrassing…

This compilation, courtesy of Wretched Radio, shows Mark Driscoll and James MacDonald rebuking the false prosperity gospel preached by T.D. Jakes. What changed, guys?

My thanks to Apprising Ministries for bringing this to my attention.

Further reading:

9 thoughts on “Elephant Room 2: Uh, this is embarrassing…”

  1. I’m not a big fan of thinking tactically in the area of discernment; I’ve been far too passive in the past because of my tendencies to do exactly that. Nevertheless, I’ve been disturbed to see the critique of ER2 take this turn into consideration of Jakes’ prosperity gospel message, for one reason: I don’t recall seeing it brought up prior to ER2.

    I think it’s a valid objection to raise, and the video screams questions that Driscoll and MacDonald need to answer. But everything I’d seen prior to ER2 had been about Trinitarianism, and that was the question for which Jakes was supposed to be held to an answer. It just seems strange to see this becoming the new tack; almost a tacit admission that the modalism thing just wasn’t working (or maybe wasn’t an issue any more).

    I know that’s not your take, Daniel, and it’s not mine. But am I the only one seeing this and wondering if MacDonald would have gotten as much push from TGC had he invited Creflo Dollar, Ken Copeland, or some other prosperity preacher who doesn’t carry a modalist label? Or is the prosperity gospel considered a less fundamentally bad heresy?

    Maybe I’m over-reacting; I hope so. It seems to me that consistency would argue for both being seen as critical. Frankly, the prosperity teachings seem to be far more infectious in churches like Steven Furtick’s; if anything I’d rather have stressed that as a topic of discussion, if one insisted on inviting Jakes…

    1. Hi Jason,

      I think you raise some interesting points.

      As you know, I only became interested in this issue when I watched Jakes’ sermon at the Code Orange Revival, and became alarmed at the positive reception that his false gospel was receiving. That’s why I wrote my review of his sermon. I didn’t deal there with his views on the Trinity, because that wasn’t the manifest (sorry) issue.

      Now, you do well to have taken a step back to look at what’s happening. So let’s take one step farther back still and ask, ‘What’s the real story here?’

      It’s not actually Jakes’ views on the Trinity. He hasn’t changed his position there at all, or said anything he hasn’t said before. No, the story here – what’s new – is his induction into the rolls of mainstream evangelical megachurchism. First by Furtick at Code Orange, and subsequently by MacDonald and Driscoll at ER2.

      The core story is thus the colossal lack of discernment being shown by Furtick, MacDonald, Driscoll, Loritts, et al. I think what you’re seeing now is simply the natural response of people beginning to realize this, whether or not they are able to consciously articulate why the focus of their attention is shifting. Thus, anything that demonstrates the lack of discernment of those high profile leaders in the the church is now big news.

      Why, then, have MacDonald and Driscoll now failed to exercise with respect to Jakes the good judgment that they evidence in the video above concerning the false and deadly prosperity gospel? Why have they played-down the importance of the critical doctrine of the Trinity, upon which the central doctrine of the Christian Faith – Christ’s bodily death for our sins and being raised from the dead – hangs? As MacDonald, Driscoll, et al. come under increasing scrutiny, the breadth of enquiry will inevitably grow.

      I think part of the explanation for what has occurred may also be simply that Jakes’ was not particularly well known in Reformation-tradition circles. That’s obviously changed and, as people find out more about him, their deep concern over the events of the Code Orange Revival and the Elephant Room will grow. Furtick, MacDonald and Driscoll have made themselves leading players in this New Downgrade.They’re going to have to give an account, whether to man or to God.

      Well, there are some thoughts. Again, I think you’re asking good questions.

  2. Note that Churchianity seems to be against reason, logic (prosperity gospel is totally illogical), open debate (even many critical blog sites subject all comments to their approval!), free speech, scientific inquiry, speaking truth to power and especially liberty, which is mutual dedication to self-restraint.

    Now self-restraint covers a lot of territory. At the core of Western Enlightenment is mutual dedication against self-dealing. Self-dealing can include husband and wife pastors of nondoms who don’t disclose they, themselves, own the assets to the church while asking for tithes and building offerings to what amounts to their retirement plan. Self dealing can include the above scenario without offering donor’s insurance against the husband and wife pastor team divorcing! Self-dealing can include mega pastors who only promote their own books or the books of peers who promote their books quid pro quo. Self-dealing can include pastors teaching only rigid righteous rules (which they themselves break, just like temple priests of old) but never stress holy flexibility which is what Jesus practiced (including the wise proverb: there is an exception to every rule.

    So there are a whole lot of shenanigans going on!

    Not just doctrine-breaking, but sheep-blinding through Neuro-Linguistic Programming that covers their audience hypnotism, showmanship, misdirection and suggestion.

    That’s why they always say, “Can I get an amen?” They force stuporous agreement. The “how-many-of-you” question is an NLP brain-stopper! The hypnotic walk left-right, or front-back, or voice up-down is mesmerizing. All quite satanic, actually. The table, as the bible says, is full of filthy vomit. Ugh!

    1. Ugh indeed.

      With regard to submitting comments to approval – I am now moderating all comments. People were not respecting the comment policy of this site and were making ugly personal attacks. Although I am happy for critical comments to appear, it is unfortunately the case that moderation is nevertheless required to maintain some degree of orderliness and civility. If anyone feels disenfranchised (he should not – no one has an intrinsic right to post comments on someone else’s website), he is of course free to set up his own blog and announce his opinions to the world.

      Thank you for your comments.

      Peace and grace.

      1. Thank you for your kind reply. Yes, comments may need to be approved, but sometimes we need opposition to shake things up! (Like a martial arts teacher needs someone to come in and challenge him or her, every once in a while.)

        You know, T.D. Jakes does a terrible audience mesmerization trick. Without explaining, he wants the audience to finish his…. finish his…. finish his… (and the audience shouts out) SENTENCE!

        This is pure witchcraft crowd control. The sentence’s ending is always easy to figure out. The audience feels such tension to have Jakes leave out the last part. Jakes builds the tension in his voice, his blood pressure, his body’s tight muscles. The audience feels the same tension. Our blood pressure goes up (not good!), our body’s muscles get tight (not good!), our tension is high.

        Then, what happens? The audience shouts out the end of the sentence. Oh my, what a relief! And Jakes seems so pleased with himself, because the audience knew the end of the sentence. And the audience seems so pleased with itself: it delivered!

        But what was delivered? Control of the body. Control of the voice. Control of the mind. Control of the emotions. Control of the sermon. Control of doctrine that this is actual preaching!

        Neuro-Linguistic Programming is absolute witchcraft, and every part of it is evil. God is not interested in high blood pressure, heart attacks, heart disease and strokes. But that is just part of the evil.

        The worst evil is that Jakes does not feed sheep, he is spiritually eating them!

        1. Robert,

          You have brought up a very interesting aspect of what is going on in a broader leavenjellycalism. I think you have a valid point about Neuro-Linguistic Programming and if you can refer me to a blog or source that discusses this in more depth in the context of leavenjellycalism mind control and money milking I would appreciate it.


  3. “Pastors in these massive, massive homes…” ~ MacDonald. What a hypocrite. He did not say that over six years ago he himself – James MacDonald bought himself a MASSIVE HOME in Inverness, IL for massive 1.9 million dollars (over six years old prices).

    Once you’re standard of living is above your people’s you are no longer a servant but their master only…

  4. Despeville,

    Thank you for your request for more NLP information. My website, http://www.inthatdayteachings.com has a lot of poems about Neuro-Linguistic Programming used in churchianity. Just word-search the books listed.

    Darren Brown can be found on YouTube. He is an English entertainer that shows what Stage Hypnotism, Showmanship, Suggestion and Misdirection can do to people’s unaware, untrained minds. He is a real eye-opener, as to wolfish ways!

    [Edited by moderator – let’s try to keep these comments on-topic for this post!]

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